HD-DVD vs. Bluray: πρωτες εντυπωσεις..

[kallair]

den exei noima auto pou les daredevil. ti ki an einai epektasi tis torinis texnologias? auto paei na pei oti den prokeitai na bgalei provlimata i tixon asimbatotites? oti aplos eipan "aa! as valoume k auto kai auto"? den leitourgoun etsi ta pragmata. to mono pou emeine idio se sxesi me ta dvd, einai i grammi paragogis... ola ta alla specs exoun allaksei. apo to iliko k tin analisi pou periexoun, ta layers pou exei kathe diskaki, mexri k ta codecs k to mikos kimatos tis aktinas pou xrisimopoioun. pos mporeis na les oti einai epektasi tis iparxousas texnologias otan to mono pou to kanei epektasi tis, einai i grammi paragogis?

mporei na iparxoun provlimata pou na min linontai mesw firmware alla an iparxoun tetoia provlimata tote auta onomazontai elatomatiko proion. den mporo na pistepso oti tha thelei calibration ena lazer otan ta specs tou einai sigkekrimena. otan to hardware kommati tou exei oristei tosous mines prin apo tosous eidikous. mporei na exoun problima me tin kataskeui diskwn me parapanw layers. pragma logiko mias k einai nea texnologia k i grammi paragogis den exei mpei se mia "regoula". alla allo diskolia kataskeuis diskwn 2 layer k allo calibration. to hd-dvd pio poli moiazei me to blueray protipo se sxesi me to dvd protipo. oti asimbatotites k problimata tha vreis sto 1, poli pithanon na vreis k sto allo. to mono pou denei to hd-dvd me to dvd einai i grammi paragogis.

[ffseriespower]

σωστα!!!:-D

[Daredevil]

Mechanical and Servo System Technologies for HD DVD Drives

YONEZAWA Minoru

HD DVD is the next-generation DVD, whose systems are compatible with the DVD systems. The mechanical and servo technologies for HD DVD drives can also be realized based on the mechanism and technologies adopted in conventional DVD drives.

Toshiba has developed a prototype HD DVD player equipped with an HD DVD drive and verified the performance of the drive. The results of the verification proved the applicability of the mechanical and servo technologies of conventional DVD drives.

 

allo loipon na exei kati etoimo kai na xtizeis panw tou kai allo na ftiaxneis kati from the scratch. allwste se oles tis etaireies pou paraskeyazoun proionta px aytokinhta to dyskolo einai na ftia3eis mia epityxhmenh [platforma pou argotera mporeis na beltiwseis kai na bgaleis kalytero proion. Ta bd players loipon den mporoun na kanoun adopt thn texnologia apo ta dvd kai na thn kanoun reproduce giati fysika 8a tous pane mesa prepei na ftia3oun mia platforma kapws san ta dvd alla me diaforetikh texnologia. pou loipon einai pio bebaio poti 8a parousiastooun problhmata? sthn beltiwsh mia hdh petyxhmenhs [platformas h se mia kainouria platforma?

 

mporei na iparxoun provlimata pou na min linontai mesw firmware alla an iparxoun tetoia provlimata tote auta onomazontai elatomatiko proion.

kati tetoio katalaba me to "ta gyrizoun pisw"

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/tech/review/2005/01/index.htm

[kallair]

ma i platforma tou blueray exei idi eksetasthei k leitourgei!!! allo exo provlima me to protypo blueray k thelei epanasxediasmo (px i isxis tou lazer, i domi twn diskwn) k allo pragma to i texnologia twn 2_layer diskwn einai poli nea k poliploki ara tha exoume megaliteri "astoxeia" ilikou ara kaliterous tropous anaptiksis twn diskwn.

to provlima tou blueray player pou sigrine to palikari ti itan? kaki xrisi codec stin ousia k scaler. pragmata pou to hd-dvd player xreiastike to firmware upgrade oste na apodosei sto telos sosta. vale k to gegonos oti to blueray player einai ligotero kairo stin agora oste na diorthothoun kapoia tetoia problimata, vale k to an dokimase mpeg-2 tainies i me avc kodikopoiisi, vlepeis pou pane ta pragmata.

[Daredevil]

egw blepw ayto pantws

 

Let's make it very simple:

1. The encoder should be able to encode anything in the master that's legal.
   
2. The decoder should be able to decode anything in the encoded file that's legal.
   
3. The renderer should be able to pass anything that's in the decoded stream that's legal.
   
4. The interconnect should pass anything from the renderer that's legal.
   
5. The display should accept anything that's passed to it that's legal.

That's the way the entire video system has been designed to work, and anything less than that from a reference video system is not acceptable.

 

The Toshiba failed at 2 or 3 (and to much ado).

The Sony encoder apparently fails at 1.

 

The difference is that the Toshiba problem is fixable (has been fixed) the Sony problem is not, in that any titles that have gone through the encoder can't be fixed.

 

opote h ftiaxneis kainourio montelo pou paizei oti bd diskaki exei bgei swsta h petas to panakribo bd sou giati einai elatwmatiko kai den prokeite na dior8w8ei ektos an alla3ei o mastering mhxanismos sthn ekastote etaireia paragwghs taineiwn.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=680008&page=3&pp=30

[kallair]

diavasa to topic pou paretheses.

 

to clipping ginetai stin mastering diadikasia twn diskwn(i sony tous kanei mastering mias k einai ap tis liges i i moni pou exei auti tin stigmi hd mastering eksoplismo gia blueray) distixws kai oxi apo to blueray player. gia auto leei oti einai fixable sto toshibe k oxi stin sony.to toshiba eixe problima stis xromatikes perioxes pou mporouse na apeikonisei pragma pou lithike me to firmware. o encoder pou xrisimopoiei tora i sony, fainetai na xrisimopoiei mikrotero range k na min emfanizei kapoies over kai under perioxes.

to gegonos auto exei dixasei tous xristes. nai men mporei na einai plirofories tou video alla tis perissoteres fores einai xromatikes perioxes pou den xrisimopoiountai k an epilekseis na fanoun autes oi perioxes, tote poli pithano na sou emfanisei skoupidia stin othoni.

 

Anybody who does the encoding/authoring for a movie release on any media whatsoever and puts actual picture information/details (instead of just a natural frequency rolloff instead of a hard crossover - which is legitimate as you crossover at display level anyway) outside the 16-235 range should be shot! Luckily, as dlarsen points out, this is hardly ever happening.

 

Some guys here seem to see this "extension" of video levels as "upgrade" - something that makes the picture "better", giving it more dynamic range and therefor should be supported by a next generation format...just because "extension" and "BTB/WTW" sounds like an upgrade. Well, thats just ridiculous. Until we get a STANDARD that defines a new and extended levels range (setting new definitive absolute Black and White points) using anything else than the 16-235 range is just messing around.

 

Why is there BTB and WTW than??? - Well, that is because in the analog world you cannot completely cross over a signal at a certain point. There is always a slope, a natural rolloff (eg. a lets say 24db/octave rolloff of an audio signal). Analog signal rolloff = "BTB/WTW" = signal GARBAGE due to the physics of analog signals ported over to the digital world. In the digital domain there is no such signal rolloff. You set your crossover and there is NO signal beyond this point. This "extension" is not an "intentional feature" but a BURDEN we carry over from the analog signal theory. Reading some books BEFORE complaining is always a good idea.

 

den leo. vlakeia tis sony pou exei kopsei autes tis perioexes ston encoder tis mias k einai perioxes pou sto mellon tha xrisimopoiithoun alla auto den simainei oti ta blueray pou exoun bgei me auton ton encoder einai xeiroteris poiotitas se sxesi me ta hd-dvd. auto pou einai sigouro, einai oti den exei provlima to blueray player. aplws ta prota diskakia exoun problima eite kakou mastering(mexri tora, mias k sta reviews pou exo diavasei gia nea releases, exoun katapliktiki eikona).

[Daredevil]

diavasa to topic pou paretheses.

 

to clipping ginetai stin mastering diadikasia twn diskwn(i sony tous kanei mastering mias k einai ap tis liges i i moni pou exei auti tin stigmi hd mastering eksoplismo gia blueray) distixws kai oxi apo to blueray player. gia auto leei oti einai fixable sto toshibe k oxi stin sony.to toshiba eixe problima stis xromatikes perioxes pou mporouse na apeikonisei pragma pou lithike me to firmware. o encoder pou xrisimopoiei tora i sony' date=' fainetai na xrisimopoiei mikrotero range k na min emfanizei kapoies over kai under perioxes.

to gegonos auto exei dixasei tous xristes. nai men mporei na einai plirofories tou video alla tis perissoteres fores [b']einai xromatikes perioxes pou den xrisimopoiountai k an epilekseis na fanoun autes oi perioxes, tote poli pithano na sou emfanisei skoupidia stin othoni.[/b]

 

 

 

den leo. vlakeia tis sony pou exei kopsei autes tis perioexes ston encoder tis mias k einai perioxes pou sto mellon tha xrisimopoiithoun alla auto den simainei oti ta blueray pou exoun bgei me auton ton encoder einai xeiroteris poiotitas se sxesi me ta hd-dvd. auto pou einai sigouro, einai oti den exei provlima to blueray player. aplws ta prota diskakia exoun problima eite kakou mastering(mexri tora, mias k sta reviews pou exo diavasei gia nea releases, exoun katapliktiki eikona).

koita na deis kallair thn apopsh mou thn 3es peri hardware an to poulas kai les oti kanei kati kai to kanei miso einai elatwmatiko, diabasa ki gw ligo ta posts sto forum 3-4 selides alla zalhstika apo tis plhrofories kai oti elege o ka8enas to konto tou kai to makry tou peri texnologias ths opoias den eimai kai toso sxetikos,

 

ayto pou symperana einai oti kapoies etaireies exeoun mia alpha mastering texnotropoia pou odhgei sto parapanw elatwma.

 

Loipon ayta ta diskakia exoun panw to shmataki BD ystera fysika apo adeia ths sony pou egyeite oti einai plhrws symbata me thn texnologia ths(e3ou kai ta loyalties), to apotelesma ta diskakai ayta paizoun problhmatika kapou. emena loipon san katanalwth den me endiaferei pws kai pou einai to la8os, apo thn stigmh pou den mporei na dior8w8ei kai den 3erw an ayrio balw ena diskaki mesa pou 8a leei BD oti 8apaizei flawllesly 8ewrw oti edwsa 1000e gia mia problhmatikh pros to parwn platforma(estw kai an to probhlhma ousiastika briskete kapou anamesa sto mhxanhma mou kai sto mastering control)

[terzo.k]

Μαλλον στην αλλη οχθη του Ατλαντικου κλεινουν προς το ΗD-DVD τελικα.

 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=691141

[BlizardBill]

To συμπέρανες επειδή γράφουν ότι έχουν θέσει στόχους τους για 10.000 πωλήσεις recorders μέχρι τέλους 2006?

(και τo recorder αυτό κάνει 3400$ ? είμαστε πολύ μακριά για να έχουν σημασία αυτά, ακόμα δεν έχουμε players.)

 

Επίσης, η καθυστέρηση 1-2 μηνών του BR δεν είναι τίποτα... μην ξεχνάμε ότι το HD-dvd ήταν να ξεκινήσει πριν ένα χρόνο κανονικά , και αυτό έπρεπε να έκανε αν ήθελε να είχε ελπίδες.

[raven360]

το Blue-ray θα αποτυχει εντελως, οπως και ολα τα νεα format που εχει προσπαθησει να καθιερωσει η Sony.. βλεπε Betamax/ATRAC/mini-disk/UMD see a trend?? μαλον οχι.. HD-DVD FTW!!

[ffseriespower]

πρεπει να παραδεχτουμε οτι η sony δεν εχει ταλεντο στην καθιερωση ενος format αλλα που ξερεις; sony ειναι αυτη!!!

[joef_gr]

το Blue-ray θα αποτυχει εντελως, οπως και ολα τα νεα format που εχει προσπαθησει να καθιερωσει η Sony.. βλεπε Betamax/ATRAC/mini-disk/UMD see a trend?? μαλον οχι.. HD-DVD FTW!

 

αυτο κατα καποιο τροπο ειναι αληθεια!

αλλα αν πραγματικα γινει λετε να παρει μαζι του και το ps3??

[kallair]

Η καλυτερη λυση ειναι να περιμενεις λιγο πριν κανεις καποια κινηση,ηδη απο οσο ξερω η Broadcast S.A εχει αναπτυξει ενα τσιπακι που μπορει να επεξεργαστει και τα δυο φορμα οποτε και δεν ειναι μακρια τα πρωτα universal player με την Samsung να εχει ανακοινωσει ηδη την προθεση της να κυκλοφορησει universal player πριν το τελος του 2006.

 

opws vlepeis joef_gr oi epoxes pou ena protipo mporei na apotixei exoun perasei. o monodromos pou legetai enosi twn format tha ginei k etsi tha exoume kati san to dvd+/-r. mono to umd is about to die epeidi den iparxoun recorders gia auto k genika den iparxei ipostiriksi.

[p3tran]

opws vlepeis joef_gr oi epoxes pou ena protipo mporei na apotixei exoun perasei. o monodromos pou legetai enosi twn format tha ginei k etsi tha exoume kati san to dvd+/-r. mono to umd is about to die epeidi den iparxoun recorders gia auto k genika den iparxei ipostiriksi.

 

πανε οι εποχες που τα προτυπα αποτυχαινανε?

και το umd τι ειναι? επιτυχια? ή 15 χρονων?

[kallair]

ma to umd apotelei eidiki katigoria! otan den sou dinei i etairia burners gia auto, otan to content pou periexoun os movies, mporeis na to ftiakseis monos sou, tote poios o logos iparksis tous? amfibaleis oti i epitixia tou tha itan poli megali an ipirxan umd recorders k den itan ena kleisto protipo?